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SES on 1 brand, SMTP on another
  • Vote Up0Vote Down texasjohntexasjohn
    Posts: 37Sendy user

    I've been running with a single brand and sending via SES. I want to send via another delivery provider (over SMTP) on a separate brand. There are no external clients- I'm controlling both brands, but setting them up separately so that I can use different providers. When setting up the second brand, I entered the SMTP settings of the other provider (SendGrid). When I go to send via SendGrid on the second brand, however, it's still sending via SES. Is it possible to have this configuration, without removing SES credentials (and having to add them back later when I want to send from the first brand via SES)?

    Thanks!

  • 36 Comments
  • Vote Up0Vote Down efuentesefuentes
    Posts: 12Sendy user

    Good question, I need it too.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down BenBen
    Posts: 3,130Sendy support

    Hi @texasjohn,

    When you send an email, Sendy checks if AWS credentials are set. If they are set, it'll send via SES. Otherwise it'll fallback to using your SMTP settings if they're set. If SMTP aren't set, it'll fallback to using PHP's sendmail.

    You can't set one brand to send via SES and another to send via SMTP at this time. I'll move this to suggestions for future consideration.

    Thanks.

    Ben

  • Vote Up0Vote Down texasjohntexasjohn
    Posts: 37Sendy user

    Ben- thanks for the prompt reply- appreciate the help as always :)

  • Vote Up0Vote Down BenBen
    Posts: 3,130Sendy support

    @texasjohn - You're welcome. :)

  • Vote Up0Vote Down guidodguidod
    Posts: 19Sendy user

    Just wanted to add my vote to this. Would be good if SES could be the fallback for all clients without an SMTP set, and use SES if it doesn't have any. Actually, it would be great to be able to set this on a brand-by-brand basis and set a global setting for brands where we didn't specify any preference.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down GrynnGrynn
    Posts: 3Sendy user

    One more vote -- brand by brand choice of SES or SMTP would be awesome

  • Vote Up0Vote Down ilshilsh
    Posts: 44Sendy user

    Vote for this

  • Vote Up0Vote Down shankorellashankorella
    Posts: 3Sendy user

    Vote for this

  • I need it to!

  • Vote Up0Vote Down mbsmbs
    Posts: 1Sendy user

    I would also like to be able to use amazon ses as standard and create a new brand and use another smtp like mandrill instead.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down ronjoronjo
    Posts: 10Sendy user

    Vote for this!

  • +1

  • Vote Up0Vote Down aspersicaaspersica
    Posts: 1Sendy user

    +1

    I need this feature too.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down wendiwendi
    Posts: 5Sendy user

    everyone need this ! :) lets go Sendy... lets go Ben ! :)

  • Vote Up0Vote Down sirkongsirkong
    Posts: 6Sendy user

    Need this feature too. More than a year from original post. Any news on when you'll be able to make it happen? Thanks! Keep up the good (great!) work.

  • Presently the only workaround till Ben updates Sendy is a second installation of Sendy on the same domain or sub domain.

    I got my Main install on Amazon SES, on a subdomain SendGrid, another subdomain for a friend that I put in a separate SendGrid.

    Sendy's license allows unlimited installs on your domain..

  • Vote Up0Vote Down votuducvotuduc
    Posts: 1Sendy user

    +1 I need this feature too.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down mydigiteramydigitera
    Posts: 9Sendy user

    Has there been any movement on this feature request? I would find this very valuable as well.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down texasjohntexasjohn
    Posts: 37Sendy user

    The workaround I've been using for quite some time, is to set up 2 one-liner mysql commands as aliases- one being my "send through SES" command which sets s3_key and s3_secret in the login table, and the other for sending via SMTP that clears the two columns, and I just urn one or the other depending on where I want to send from. Obviously can only send through one brand at a time, but it beats having to set and clear those fields in the UI.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down mbutmbut
    Posts: 3Sendy user

    Definitely needed. Any news about this? I

  • Vote Up0Vote Down doleaguedoleague
    Posts: 21Sendy user

    I am using SMTP, is it possible to keep using different SMTP for each brands? Thanks

  • +1 Here. Yea, this is a big deal. I have several clients using my Sendy installation and I don't want all of them on my Amazon SES account. One in particular is a little sloppy with their email lists and got me put on probation with Amazon because their bounce rates were too high. Another is a high value client who I want to send through my DYN SMTP account for higher deliverability. I need the flexibility of determining which SMTP gateway to use so that I don't have to keep clients on different sub-domains or play traffic-cop and only allow one brand to send emails at a time.

    I get why Sendy is so closely tied to SES (duh) but the inability to leverage backup SMTP servers is a serious scaleability issue.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down iskanderiskander
    Posts: 3Sendy user

    +1

  • Vote Up0Vote Down dacumendacumen
    Posts: 8Sendy user

    Solved.

    If you have multiple accounts using Sendy it turns out that it's very risky to use Amazon SES. I just had a long email conversation with Amazon about the multiple customers using my SES account and the main take-away was that they don't like it! They put me on probation after a long lecture about why having clients use my SES account sets off all sorts of "red flags".

    Solutions - dump Amazon SES in favor of Mandrill! Mandrill gives superior service, superior reporting, and the same level of integration with Sendy as Amazon SES and the kicker is because you're not locking your Sendy account with SES credentials, you are free to mix it up a little! I now have my big clients on Dyn, my normal clients on Mandrill, and my personal account on my SES account to save a few pennies.

    Much better and more reliable solution than using SES alone.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down arevecoareveco
    Posts: 1Sendy user

    dacumen - you say that this is solved. But is solved only as long as we give up Amazon SES. This feature would be really nice.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down pongpong
    Posts: 1Sendy user

    @texasjohn: would you mind sharing those statements? Of course I don't need your SES creds ;)

    This topic was started in 2013. Would it help if people would chip in to get this functionality implemented, @Ben? After all, if I use my own time that costs me too.

    • Use at your own risk- I take no responsibility if anything breaks *

    The SES credentials are set at the instance level, and the SMTP credentials are set at the app level. I always have my SMTP credentials set, and, knowing that, if the SES credentials are set, they'll take priority, and if not, Sendy will fall back to SMTP.

    I have these 2 lines set up as command aliases (substitute in "user" (sql user, not app user), "dbname", "s3key", and "s3secret"- also make sure login record with id=1 is the one you want). It will also prompt for your sql login.

    alias do_ses='mysql -u user -p -e "update login set s3_key='\''s3key'\'', s3_secret='\''s3secret'\'' where id="1";" dbname' alias do_smtp='mysql -u user -p -e "update login set s3_key='\'''\'', s3_secret='\'''\'' where id="1";" dbname'

    There's a lot of quoting and escaping in there to allow the SQL statement within a quoted command script to work. When you want to use SES, run do_ses; run do_smtp when you want to use SMTP. All this does is populate or empty SES credentials a little easier and quicker. You could do that by hand in Sendy with the same result and a lot less risk.

    Yes it's dangerous to have S3 keys in a plain-text script. Yes if Ben changes Sendy SES/SMTP fallback functionality at any point this will break, and it will also break if the data model changes. If you're not comfortable with SQL and Unix command line, don't do this. This isn't an improvement on Sendy app functionality, it's just a data hack.

  • I also vote for this! Being able to set individual Amazon SES and also SMTP servers, individualy on each client is a must!

  • It is actually really a simple piece of code.
    I did it in my copy.
    But the problem is that I have to rewrite it again for each version update.

    If @Ben could do this in his next version, it would be really great.

    For example,
    the code in includes\create\send-now.php
    is given as

    if(get_app_info('s3_key')!='' && get_app_info('s3_secret')!='')
    {
    Code to send email via SES
    }
    else if($smtp_host!='' && $smtp_port!='' && $smtp_username!='' && $smtp_password!='')
    {
    Code to send email via SMTP
    }

    All we have to do is interchange the condition as

    if($smtp_host!='' && $smtp_port!='' && $smtp_username!='' && $smtp_password!='')
    {
    Code to send email via SMTP
    }
    else if(get_app_info('s3_key')!='' && get_app_info('s3_secret')!='')
    {
    Code to send email via SES
    }

    If a brand has SMTP details set in it, then that configuration would take precedence over sending via SES. If you want to use SES, then remove the SMTP details from the brand.

    This has to be done wherever the email sending code is present.
    Example: includes\create\test-send.php

  • Vote Up0Vote Down edwardaniledwardanil
    Posts: 4Sendy user

    @Ben, any update on this issue?

  • +1 for this feature

    It seems normal that any local customisation (SMTP) should be checked first and global settings (AWS) are fallbacks for specialisations.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down machinemachine
    Posts: 2Sendy user

    This is pretty big for us, too. The logic as it is now works well for a single tenant, but in a multi-tenant scenario, the inverse (what people are asking for here) is true.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down colcolcolcol
    Posts: 6Sendy user

    dacumen wrote:

    "If you have multiple accounts using Sendy it turns out that it's very risky to use Amazon SES. I just had a long email conversation with Amazon about the multiple customers using my SES account and the main take-away was that they don't like it! They put me on probation after a long lecture about why having clients use my SES account sets off all sorts of "red flags"."

    Seems like that is a major flaw with the Sendy product, at least for those wishing to manage the sending of emails from multiple client websites.

    The home page does claim: "Optionally give your client access to their own brand and let them send newsletters on their own at a price you set." I note the singular 'client', not 'clients'.

    No wonder the likes of cloudy.email, who use the Sendy product and have dressed it up as their own, require new clients (plural!) to go through the aggro of setting up their own AWS accounts.

    dacumen also wrote" "I need the flexibility of determining which SMTP gateway to use so that I don't have to keep clients on different sub-domains or play traffic-cop and only allow one brand to send emails at a time."

    Hold on... that last bit...are you saying that only one brand can send an email campaign at any one time? That too seems a flaw for a multiple-client user.

    I have wondered why there have been fewer posts on this forum in recent years. I am beginning to understand why.

  • Agreed- having multiple brands/clients sending simultaneously is bad- from a single Sendy instance. As a matter of practice, ignoring the technical/timing difficulties, I'd only run multiple clients (where the client controls their own sends, lists, and practices) on a single instance (and single SES account) if I trusted these clients completely to the extent that "their downfall is my downfall" as far as SES is concerned (if you've ever dealt with trying to get delisted from a major blacklist you know what I'm talking about). I'd get them all their own Sendy instances and SES accounts, so that they'd manage their own sender reputation. If one of them decides to buy a list, or send emails 5 times a day, or send questionable content, or not handle bounces/complaints/unsubscribes properly, then it's on them. So I'd either want to completely manage it all myself (and then timing issues would work themselves out), or not at all. I would hope allowing multiple clients on a single SES account raises red flags for Amazon- there's a lot more risk, and, just like those other clients' reputations affects yours, yours affects Amazon's.

    Back to your point- there's certain things Sendy excels at, but, yes, there's certain things it doesn't. It's a tool that serves a specific use case for specific users. I completely manage for multiple brands, some on SES and some not, and play traffic cop in the process.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down colcolcolcol
    Posts: 6Sendy user

    Hi texasjohn, all makes sense -- many thanks for confirming what I had suspected.

  • If you want to use a mix of Amazon SES and third party SMTP for different brands, you’d need to use Amazon SES SMTP credentials in the brand settings instead of using Amazon SES IAM credentials in the main settings. Here’s where to obtain your Amazon SES SMTP credentials → http://docs.aws.amazon.com/ses/latest/DeveloperGuide/smtp-credentials.html

    Now the only thing missing is adding a way to throttle per smtp service. There is already a way to do this for sendy globally, as explained here: https://sendy.co/forum/discussion/1272/how-to-send-only-500-mails-per-hour/p1

    allowing to set a "usleep" OR "sleep" timeout PER SMTP would allow granular control and the option to to optimise sending over multiple SMTP staying within the limitations of each.

    PS. I found most shared hosting and mass email services block connections to external SMTP, so the best way is to host sendy on your own server, or drop some $$ on specialised sendy hosting solutions: https://tjosm.com/5920/install-sendy-vps-virtualmin-nginx/

    Let's upvote the individual SMTP throttle function?!

    @ben, is this feasible?